Manastash Ridge trail 4W330

[Ceg_]

I am wanting to know how bad this trail is:

Manastash Ridge trail 4W330
http://cegranch.com/all/2007-06/2007-06-16-06.JPG

Let me know if you have ran it and in what type rig you did it with. Post up any pictures you may have on that trail.

Thanks, Clay

[dirk]

According to the MAP (http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/cle-elum-orv/maps/map-west-8.pdf) it is called Tipover Trail...isn't this the trail that is run on the Rocky Saddle run?

ROCKY SADDLE (Rated 10; width restriction-75 inches.) This trail is for short wheel base vehicles with lockers front and rear, full roll cage, aggressive tires, CB and winch. For experienced drivers only! There is a high risk of vehicle and equipment damage. The trail host leader will determine final eligibility. Plan for a long day!

I have been on it with a CJ7...lots of tight corners in the timber.

Manastash Ridge Trail is 4W306.

[Merrick Graves]

Fun trail also known as Rocky Saddle even though the trail skirts below the saddle. Couple of fun short hill climbs thru rock slides. Then the trail gets tight and twisty. The trail thru the twisty section was rerouted a couple years ago by the Wandering Willys Jeep Club. For the most part the reroute builders took their flatfenders. We set it up so there were three and 4 point turn for the flatties. Thru the years others have made those ubbertight turns straighted. But it is still a good time. If you go uphill at the intersection instead of heading for the Shoestring and the Rock Garden you will pass a outlook rock. This is a great place to look down on the Rock Garden. Hold on to the kids though. Great place for lunch.

You can swing out thru the Shoestring or take the Rock Garden. Then choices become Upper Kaner or Quartz Mtn.

This is a popular run for the Jamboree. The run fill everyday it is offered.

[Ceg_]

According to the MAP (http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/cle-elum-orv/maps/map-west-8.pdf) it is called Tipover Trail...Yes the Forest Service has been calling it Tip Over for years. That is one reason I asked about this trail. What are the chances of flopping. I have ran Shoestring and String but never 4W330. I have seen both ends of 4W330. I want to know what is in the middle. Waycrazy is wanting to run it this summer. I am not a fan of off camber in areas without trees to stop me from rolling down the hill. How bad it this trail as far as flopping?

[Merrick Graves]

Before the trail was rerouted it had a section in the center that been closed. You could not run the trail thru. The section that was closed had a reputation for some serious accidents. There had been deaths. It was a cresting hill that could be run downhill only. You had to be in a low gear under acceleration driving faster than you would slide. You could not see where or what was happening next because of the crest. As I remember about halfway down there was a sharp right followed by another sharp left. It was at these turns that trouble was encountered or the person had gotten on the brakes and was out of control. You just could not stop. The FS closed the trail by digging a giant tank trap and installing chain link fence. You can still get to that section from the top but are stopped a good distane before the trenchs. From the bottom you can not find the old trail. It was put to bed and has been reforested. It may of been named because of that section.

[zukkev]

Rocky Saddle Trail is a blast!!!! I love running it, some spectacular views! There isn't much off-camber on the trail-only a couple areas that I can think of; one is in the rock garden-not too bad at all. the other is before 'Sasha's infamous Hill!!!' (that loose rocky hillclimb she can't seem to make---Jim knows!)

[Ceg_]

Before the trail was rerouted it had a section in the center that been closed. You could not run the trail thru. The section that was closed had a reputation for some serious accidents. There had been deaths. It was a cresting hill that could be run downhill only. You had to be in a low gear under acceleration driving faster than you would slide. You could not see where or what was happening next because of the crest. As I remember about halfway down there was a sharp right followed by another sharp left. It was at these turns that trouble was encountered or the person had gotten on the brakes and was out of control. You just could not stop. The FS closed the trail by digging a giant tank trap and installing chain link fence. You can still get to that section from the top but are stopped a good distane before the trenchs. From the bottom you can not find the old trail. It was put to bed and has been reforested. It may of been named because of that section.Thanks for the history. :thumbup: I had not heard that before.

So all the easy death spots are gone? How does the trail compare to the others in the area as in difficulty? The rock gardens like the ones on Shoestring and Kanner or are they big where you need more ground clearance?

[Ceg_]

Rocky Saddle Trail is a blast!!!! I love running it, some spectacular views! There isn't much off-camber on the trail-only a couple areas that I can think of; one is in the rock garden-not too bad at all. the other is before 'Sasha's infamous Hill!!!' (that loose rocky hillclimb she can't seem to make---Jim knows!)How long is this loose climb?

[zbd74]

The Tipover W330 is the Boeing Employees Stump Thumpers (BEST) adopt-a-trail. You can see the stainless steel sign up on the tree in the background

Yeah, the Rocky Saddle Dropoff, used to be the W601 until the #'s were changed to the W300 series for some reason. It used to run out to the now end of the W306, turn left and drop...extreme pucker factor, I trigged out my inclinometer, which was pegged out to be 78* at the dropoff on top. Then it was about 150' of loose rock & dirt, you had to get on/off the brake & gas to stay straight. It got worse over the years as folks attempted to winch up it (I'm guilty), big holes got dug, and the drop got more dangerous

The last time I went off the drop off a good friend endoed right behind me. Two quarts of oil and we drove it out ot Cle Elum

The Powerline Pounders (PP's) always went off this during their annual club stag run. The party usually started after we all got to the bottom :kumbaya:

Unfortunately some assh*les :icon_evil:continue to cut trees on the trail to get their big ass rigs through I guess. I'm at 78"s and I've never had any problem working my way through

I guess I'll never understand why folks need to f*ck things up for others...starting to sound like Pokey aren't I :uhoh2:

[zukkev]

How long is this loose climb?

The majority of the climb isn't too bad---the last 100ft or so is fairly loose...yr before I crawled right up it in 2nd gear low range (6:1 case gaers w/ 4:88's in the pumpkins), this last yr at trail jam, I got denied on the first attempt, backed down (carefully mind you!), and made it no prob on the 2nd attempt...It's kind of a 2stage climb, totalling approx 250. The first 150ft or so is pretty easy!!!

[Merrick Graves]

How long is this loose climb?


If this is the climb I'm thinking of there are 2 ways up. 1 longer than the other and more technical with loose stuff the whole way. The other is more of a full pedal to get to the bouncy then lug your way over the top. The trail sidewalls are getting taller as the trail gets dug deeper there.

[Merrick Graves]

Yeah, the Rocky Saddle Dropoff, used to be the W601 until the #'s were changed to the W300 series for some reason.

The 600 series are Naches District #"s. 300 series #'s are Cle Elum. That section of trail is in the Cle Elum but the Naches used to manage it. Management lines changed. Note the 601 has now been used over in Rimrock.

[Ceg_]

Which direction is harder to go on 4W330?

[Dave McMains]

The location that you took the picture of is more uphill and a little more difficult. I think you could take tweety on it with a little help spotting in the tight stuff. You might have some trouble on a couple of the hills but we have done it with open rigs in the past. It is a nice trail to run and dosent take all day to run it. Years past at trail Jamb we have run the trail out to the string trail and then turned around and run it back just to keep a more even flow on the hills. It is just as much fun the other way too.

[jim putman]

said hillclimb:super:

[zukkev]

Yup, that be the one!!!Poor Sash.....:ImaPoser:

[Ceg_]

said hillclimb:super:Thanks for posting the picture Jim. :thumbup:

Anyone have other pics of the 4W330 Trail?

[Ceg_]

The location that you took the picture of is more uphill and a little more difficult. I think you could take tweety on it with a little help spotting in the tight stuff. Thanks for the info. :thumbup: We have a few XJs owner in our club that would like to run 4W330. Shoestring was not as tight as we were told by some people. We ran Shoestring east to west in 2007. 2008 we ran String down then Shoestring east. Last year I even used the Blue XJ. So in 2009 we want to do something different to break things up even more. We are hoping for tight trails but do not want to go where we don't fit.

[jim putman]

A few more from the RS. In Sashas defense She had broken the front axle the year before on this same hill and was using better judgement this year. This hill is rough and loose if you dont start out strong and keep some momentum your not going to make it up. If you stop the chances of continuing up are slim to none. You will either dig holes or start hopping and then break. :icon_surprised:

[Ceg_]

A few more from the RS. In Sashas defense She had broken the front axle the year before on this same hill and was using better judgement this year. This hill is rough and loose if you dont start out strong and keep some momentum your not going to make it up. If you stop the chances of continuing up are slim to none. You will either dig holes or start hopping and then break. :icon_surprised:Is this come from 4W307 or from 4W309?

[Merrick Graves]

Thanks for the info. :thumbup: We have a few XJs owner in our club that would like to run 4W330. Shoestring was not as tight as we were told by some people. We ran Shoestring east to west in 2007. 2008 we ran String down then Shoestring east. Last year I even used the Blue XJ. So in 2009 we want to do something different to break things up even more. We are hoping for tight trails but do not want to go where we don't fit.

Ceg this is not an accusation of you or who you wheel with. Just a comment cause the Shoestring was tight.

The Shoestring (as other trails) has lost about a 1/4 to 1/2 mile in length. Problem is the technical (tight twisty) sections have been cut out. You can drive the trail and see them. I surmise Quads have something to do with it. Much of the trail has sidewalls and holds water. The Quads take the short path and avoid much of the water. After awhile a bypass is formed and along comes a 4wheel Trail vehicle with a driver not aware of the trail and he/she follows the bypass. I have seen this on the Woodpecker, Quartz Mtn, Divide, and Rocky Saddle (Tipover). The FS is requiring the Trail Jamboree to close as many of these bypass' as we can. But we return each year and find them re-established.

Now before I get flamed let me mention I first noticed this happening after introduction of the YJ. Tight trails started to get trees cut out in corners requiring two of three point turns. I know from experience that the wider track vehicle can't make the ubbertight turns established by the narrow track rigs of yesteryear. I also believe that the YJ's (followed by TJ's) were for the most part rigs bought on credit. When the choice came to rubbing a tree (leaves a mark)(or getting caught up) or making the tree go away "OUT CAME THE SAWS". Now I read threads (on this site and others) that "ALL RIGS HAVE A RIGHT TO RUN THESE TRAILS". Small rigs be ****ed cause here I come in my fullsize. There appears to be nothing we can do. By the time we educate the drivers the damage has been done.

That being said I would love to see at least the bypass's be abolished. I CHALLENGE everyone who runs these trails to always look about for the old trail. When you see it take a few minutes and reroute the trail. Scatter forest duff and branches over the bypass. Drag a log accross the bypass. We will gain on the ground trail mileage.

Thanks

[WAYCRAZY]

I know you were not accusing us of this type of behavior but Just so everyone who reads this knows we as a club do not believe in by-passes or cutting down trees so the larger rigs will fit!!! In fact we spend countless hours fixing other people's by-passes .Me and Ceg live for the tight twisty trails :thumbup:I do agree with you as the popularity of running trails have increased, Unnamed jerks have tried to make highways out of the trails becouse they are worried that they will have to drive in downtown bellview and be seen with scratches or worse dents in there rigs. I used to run Rimrock with my father when I was a pup and even since then things have changed . I remember when short and dirty used to be so tight that my Dad had to be extremely careful not to wedge his 68 bronco between 2 trees. That was fun. Now just about anyone can run a large rig down that trail ...Not so much fun .It is frustrating . And I worry it will only get worse now that the JK is out . Ok this is were our opinions might differ I have no problems with the Xj size rigs running these tight twisty trails believe me I have seen some incredible driving from Ceg to get around trees without getting dents but I do expect others driving these sort of rigs to run these trails as they were meant to be run .Instead of making the trail to be ran as they think it should be run. The only saw that should come out is the sawzall to get rid of the fender or other parts that keep them from getting through the trail. Now everyone who reads this knows how I feel . If anyone disagrees with my opinion dont worry I can sleep at night knowing that people disagree. I feel no need to argue my points .I hope people will just read it and take what I say in .

[WAYCRAZY]

And thank you for all of the great info . The pics were cool to see and hopefully other folks will upload all the other cool 4wheelin pic files they are hideing from me. :icon_lol:

[Ceg_]

Ran across these pics I took last year of the west end of the 4W330 trail so I thought I would posted them here.

http://www.aworc.com/orv-area/Naches-Manastash-Trails/Tip-Over-4W330/west-end-signs.jpg

http://www.aworc.com/orv-area/Naches-Manastash-Trails/Tip-Over-4W330/west-end-sign-a.jpg

http://www.aworc.com/orv-area/Naches-Manastash-Trails/Tip-Over-4W330/west-end-sign-b.jpg

Are the Boeing Employees Stump Thumpers still around?

[zbd74]

BEST is still running :super:...about 20 members strong, only a third wheel though

[dirk]

After awhile a bypass is formed and along comes a 4wheel Trail vehicle with a driver not aware of the trail and he/she follows the bypass. I have seen this on the Woodpecker, Quartz Mtn, Divide, and Rocky Saddle (Tipover).
Why can't we mark the trail with diamonds...similar to how snowmobile trails are marked. It seems like that would clear up any confusion & allow the honest folks to stay on the trail. :thumbup:

[Dirtball]

that is exactly what Nancy is doing down at Elbe. each trail has a different color diamond and she has maps that are color coded to match. she did a great job and it could be used in other areas also. probably already is.

[zukkev]

A few more from the RS. In Sashas defense She had broken the front axle the year before on this same hill and was using better judgement this year. This hill is rough and loose if you dont start out strong and keep some momentum your not going to make it up. If you stop the chances of continuing up are slim to none. You will either dig holes or start hopping and then break. :icon_surprised:

Correction; Sasha S'd the rear springs, broke the T-case mounts, and twisted the rear housing to te point the pinion was pointing up at the underbelly! All this happened the 1st yr the attempt was made....Jim is correct, she err'd on the side of caution this yr... SHE IS PISSED!!!!:mad:If nothing else, she's got a bone to pick with that climb!!!:pot:

[Ceg_]

that is exactly what Nancy is doing down at Elbe. each trail has a different color diamond and she has maps that are color coded to match. she did a great job and it could be used in other areas also. probably already is.That is a very good idea. People don't know where the trails is after the by-passes get broke in.

[dirk]

that is exactly what Nancy is doing down at Elbe. each trail has a different color diamond and she has maps that are color coded to match. she did a great job and it could be used in other areas also. probably already is.

That is a very good idea. People don't know where the trails is after the by-passes get broke in.

Different colors for each trail that corresponded to the map would be pretty slick....however, I would be impressed with just having one color of diamond marking the trails.

I envision the diamonds to act like gates or checkpoints on the trail...the user would have to drive between the 2 diamonds...or always stay to the right...you get the idea.

Who has experience with this idea? What am I missing here?

:beer:

[JK kat]

Yes B.E.S.T. is still around, I am a spousal member.
BTW, the signs are aircraft grade alumium.
This pic was talken back on 08/25/2007 when RubyDoo was still new and stock.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff229/JKkat/100_0860.jpg

Me on the left and Rhonda (the pres) on the right.

[Ceg_]

Cool! :thumbup:

[JK kat]

So the trail can be run with a stock JK Rubicon.

[Merrick Graves]

Trail has tight twisty turns. Orginally it was rerouted by the WWJC and we layed it out for Flatfenders. Many years have past since then. Many wheelers with chainsaws have fixed it for themselves. Last summer the tightest turn required 3 point turn with my YJ. I can almost do it (that turn) in my Flattie with out a pause. When we set it up that turn was at least a four point turn with a Flattie. Time changes everything.

[Ceg_]

Many wheelers with chainsaws have fixed it for themselves. That is sad.

[Merrick Graves]

Nevertheless the trail remains on of my favorites. If you run the trail try to take the trail that goes out to the Rocky Saddle bluff. The views are really good. If you camp up there you can set op a lawnchair to watch the sunset and from the same place location you can watch the sunrise.

The trail # escapes me right now but it is well marked. And is nothing more than a drive thru the woods.

[WAYCRAZY]

Nevertheless the trail remains on of my favorites. If you run the trail try to take the trail that goes out to the Rocky Saddle bluff. The views are really good. If you camp up there you can set op a lawnchair to watch the sunset and from the same place location you can watch the sunrise.

The trail # escapes me right now but it is well marked. And is nothing more than a drive thru the woods.
Have you caught the trail # yet??? I am not old enough to know what you are referring to as Rocky Saddle bluff..LOL I think maybe the end of 688??? Where the Saddle is ?

[JK kat]

Just to keep you all updated, B.E.S.T. 4x4 club has a run set-up for June 12-14th to due our yearly spring trail clean-up.

[WAYCRAZY]

Most excellent JK kat glad to see BEST is still up and running and keeping up the trails!

[zbd74]

Have you caught the trail # yet??? I am not old enough to know what you are referring to as Rocky Saddle bluff..LOL I think maybe the end of 688??? Where the Saddle is ?

It used to be the 601 back before the drop off was closed, and the trail re-routed through the 330

[Jeepermc]

It used to be the 601 back before the drop off was closed, and the trail re-routed through the 330

The trail # changing had nothing to do with the trail re-route. FS district thing as Merrick said before. I helped with the re-route when it was done by WWJC. It has been opened up considerably since then.

[JK kat]

Rhonda's club is heading up this weekend to clean-up this trail and anything else on the way, Keep hearing theres lots of tree down......

[Merrick Graves]

Be ready for snow. On 6/6 snow was encountered before Region 4 Meadows right after turning from the 4w307 to the 4w308. Lots of snow and lots of water. I know such things can cause lots of "Fun" but please 'Tread Lighty".