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  #11  
Old 05-13-2010, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post
What is there to discuss? The rule is outdated & should be changed...both associations should be working together to make this happen.
Possibly input from members that dont attend region meetings or arnt in region 2.
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dirk View Post
We should be working with the Forest Service to rewrite these outdated regulations that DO NOT apply in today's world. I understand that 70 inches hub-to-hub was absolutely appropriate when these areas were originally developed, BUT times have changed & so have the rigs we see using our trails.
I completely agree with this statement.

Thank you for providing reminders about the previous poll results.

And thank you Nichol for providing some hard numbers.
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:52 PM
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I like the content of our discussion. I would hope that there will be more input from more than just the four of us- not that I don't think that we have covered it.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2010, 08:41 AM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post
I am listening Nichol & couldn't agree more.

We should be working with the Forest Service to rewrite these outdated regulations that DO NOT apply in today's world. I understand that 70 inches hub-to-hub was absolutely appropriate when these areas were originally developed, BUT times have changed & so have the rigs we see using our trails.



I guess I will see you at the next region meeting then

Be careful with the above statement. There is much said that applies but the full story has not been stated. The width restriction may not apply to todays vehicle standard but what else also does not apply to todays standard. Has anyone here other than myself ever been to a White River meeting and heard from Bob Pacific that under todays regulations Evans Creek could not be built? I have heard that not only from Bob. The FS was speaking from soil conditions to water quality and other enviromental/ecological concerns that Evans Creek would not meet the standards in place today.

There is much that does not meet "Todays Standard".
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:43 AM
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This is one of those issues that you will never be able to satisfy everyone and everyone has a passionate opinion. We have had a similar discussion on our board http://www.deschutescounty4wheelers....?TOPIC_ID=1764. There are some updated USFS specs posted there. In the Deschutes National Forest, the forest supervisor has adopted a blanket 80 inch rule for all new trail systems. Keep in mind that a full-size F-350 is under 80 inches. Depending on the vegetation, terrain and distance between trees, sometimes a length restriction would be more appropriate. Sometime a tire size restriction is more appropriate. Sometimes a width restriction works better.

The goal is to maintain the integrity of the trail system and not allow folks to make a freeway out of it. Often times, people lose sight of this goal while "protecting" their right to use the system. Not all trails are appropriate for all rigs, we just have to accept that. A full size truck with 44 inch tires is inappropriate for Edison, whereas a stock or semi-stock rig with 31" tires and no lockers is inappropriate for Santiam. We need to keep the big picture in mind.
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermint Patti View Post
There are some updated USFS specs posted there. In the Deschutes National Forest, the forest supervisor has adopted a blanket 80 inch rule for all new trail systems.
What is the process for getting this started?
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:51 AM
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Well, the specs are located in the Forest Service Handbook FSH 2309.18_20 Exhibit 23.23-01 and are effective 10/16/2008. In the case of our 80 inch rule, it falls within the parameters of these specs. The forest service came to us and asked us if we would agree.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
Be careful with the above statement. There is much said that applies but the full story has not been stated. The width restriction may not apply to todays vehicle standard but what else also does not apply to todays standard. Has anyone here other than myself ever been to a White River meeting and heard from Bob Pacific that under todays regulations Evans Creek could not be built? I have heard that not only from Bob. The FS was speaking from soil conditions to water quality and other enviromental/ecological concerns that Evans Creek would not meet the standards in place today.

There is much that does not meet "Todays Standard".

You could say the same for floating bridges, highways, dams & agriculture. Any "new projects" have to pass many regulations to be allowed to be upgraded to today's standard. We have to widen highways to accomodate people to get to work, we build bridges across waterways that may endanger the fish. These projects all get accomplished and they are allowed to be maintained and upgraded due to the fact they already were in existance. Why should it be any different for Evan's Creek?
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2010, 12:05 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichol View Post
You could say the same for floating bridges, highways, dams & agriculture. Any "new projects" have to pass many regulations to be allowed to be upgraded to today's standard. We have to widen highways to accomodate people to get to work, we build bridges across waterways that may endanger the fish. These projects all get accomplished and they are allowed to be maintained and upgraded due to the fact they already were in existance. Why should it be any different for Evan's Creek?
Everything you mention can be mitigated. Only takes money for the projects you describe. Maybe we should appeal the "Queen Christine" to return the funding she took from the trail system. She took it all.

Was anyone who has posted on this topic at the meeting? What exactly was said? Who said it? What was the context of the comments? I have it second hand. I talked to someone who was there. But what I heard from them was their opinion of what they heard. I have also heard Bob speak of Evans Creek before. I know what he has said of Evans Creek. I know the result of what happened when the District Ranger went on a tour of the area a few years ago. Bob is faced with having to please his boss and please the user (kinda like being between a rock and a hard spot). Bob has regulations that have been thru review and enacted. I wouldn't want to be Bob.
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  #20  
Old 05-14-2010, 12:14 PM
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I want to Thank you all Very Much for your Comments..

I too drive a small rig and enjoy the world out of it, and really don't see a reason to go bigger But.

I like being able to have freedom of Speech, I like the right to Bare Arms so as to protect yours and mine from desperate people. I like having a choice to drive I-5 or old 99, and the right to drive a Busted ass pinto if I so choose.

You have heard Parents around the world say if you give them an inch they will take a mile?

Well Guess what, Those kids grew up and are now in positions of power over our great Land.

My Philosophy is simple I don't like restrictions, I don't like the Man telling me I can or can't.
I understand rules have to be in place to Stop/slowdown the uneducated.

It is of my Opinion that Tire size and width restriction will not stop the Damage only enforcement of the current rules and regulations will, the only way they will stop this trend of Damage is to dig deeper in their Pockets and Pay for more E&E enforcement and Education.

It is also My opinion that if restrictions are subjected, I will build my rig accordingly. (( I play well with others))
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