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  #131  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:16 PM
big iron big iron is offline
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The pic peanut posted looks like somebody cutting firewood.....Better shut it down poaching wood is illegal.... Same thing can be said about many pictures or video.....lets fight the closures together not fight each other.....Thanks for posting that peanut....it has very good merrit with the subject at hand
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  #132  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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WHITE TRASH WHITE TRASH is offline
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The sooner the older generations come to the realization that apeazment of the greenies and the far left is not humanly possible. That they will not be happy until we are all driving solar powered golf carts and humans are not allowed into the wilderness. The sooner we can get past these rediculous little squables over what in the end is a silly debate that gets blown far out of proportion.

We need to act as a cohesive unit, so one bunch doesn't like playing in the mud. Another bunch that is into the more built, hardcore side of things. And yet another bunch that is perfectly happy driving forrest service roads in stock rigs and so on & so forth. We need to realize the enemy, yes they are in fact our enemy do not fool yourself into falling into the trap of thinking they are our friends. They love nothing more than to see this infighting. They know it will be our downfall in the end, don't fool yourselves.

So to end my meandering, random ramble I'll say this; before you click the reply icon take a second to decide if what you are about to post is helpfull or if it is intended to tick someone off. If all you are out to do is anger someone or put them and their way of thinking down do our side a favor and back away from the keyboard. I know I a guilty of helping their side in that manor but I'm willing to change my ways, are you?
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If anything I do or say offends you then good. Political Correctness has done what for us exactly? It is time to adopt the tactics of the opposition before you are defeated by your own unwillingness to risk offending those that wish to destroy our hobby and way of life.
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  #133  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:41 PM
big iron big iron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE TRASH View Post
The sooner the older generations come to the realization that apeazment of the greenies and the far left is not humanly possible. That they will not be happy until we are all driving solar powered golf carts and humans are not allowed into the wilderness. The sooner we can get past these rediculous little squables over what in the end is a silly debate that gets blown far out of proportion.

We need to act as a cohesive unit, so one bunch doesn't like playing in the mud. Another bunch that is into the more built, hardcore side of things. And yet another bunch that is perfectly happy driving forrest service roads in stock rigs and so on & so forth. We need to realize the enemy, yes they are in fact our enemy do not fool yourself into falling into the trap of thinking they are our friends. They love nothing more than to see this infighting. They know it will be our downfall in the end, don't fool yourselves.

So to end my meandering, random ramble I'll say this; before you click the reply icon take a second to decide if what you are about to post is helpfull or if it is intended to tick someone off. If all you are out to do is anger someone or put them and their way of thinking down do our side a favor and back away from the keyboard. I know I a guilty of helping their side in that manor but I'm willing to change my ways, are you?
Very accurate statement trashy.....I for one want to help the cause and keep things open.... this bickering just plays into the greenies hands the more we divide the stronger they become and the more we lose.....we need to all stand for the same cause.....The use of our natural resources for recreation with motorized vehicles
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  #134  
Old 11-25-2009, 07:25 PM
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Peanut Peanut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave McMains View Post
so it is OK for people to post up on you tube, videos of themselves romping around in a mud hole and leave it for everyone to see?
Do you think that me saying "No it's not OK" is going to stop them??

I can't say it's right or its wrong. All I can state is MY OPINION.

Would it be better for our cause that those video's are not there? Yes.

Would it be helpful if the videos had dates, times, locations and who's in them?
On the reporting violators side? No, because there is no proof that what is on the video or in the description of the video is accurate or truthful information.

To stop the greenies? No, their still going to use it against us.


Unfortunately it rains a lot in western Washington. We have wheeling areas that are known for having mud. Examples: Elbe, Evans, Tahuya, and even Rimrock, the lakebed at Rimrock, Naches, Liberty,....pretty much any wheeling area that is close to a mountain range or on the west side are going to have some sort of mud on them during some time of the year.

Is "mudding" legal in Washington - NO.

Do we have to drive through some mud on some of our trails - YES.

Is it legal to drive through a mudhole on a trail by tread lightly rules?
You tell me..... here's the rules straight from tread lightly.

*Avoid mud if possible but always remain on the road or trail. If you can't avoid the mud, don't drive around mud and create your own trail. If you can't avoid the mud, use as high a gear as the vehicle will pull comfortably, generally low range, and use just enough throttle to maintain forward movement. Avoid wheel spin if possible.
*Engage traction aiding devices such as locking differentials for added traction and minimum wheel spin. If necessary, winch yourself through the mud to avoid digging runs and destroying the trail.
*Turn the steering wheel rapidly from side-to-side if you sense a loss of traction. This can help generate additional traction by allowing the side wall tread of the tires to grip the sides of the ruts. This also helps to transfer power from a spinning wheel to a wheel with more traction.
*Smooth, easy power is better than too much power. If you feel the vehicle sinking rather than moving forward, stop and try reversing before the vehicle becomes dug in and possibly stuck.

Since Big Iron's video is the one that is causing this discussion I will use it as an example. I'm sorry Big Iron, unfortunately you are the star of the show.

So can I honestly tell you if what Big Iron was doing in the video was following Tread Lightly standards? No, he is not.

The reasons he is not:
#1 repeatedly driving back and forth and through the mud holes
#2 spinning his tires excessively

Would I turn him in to the LEO's? That would depend. The first thing I would do would be to try to contact him. If he was willing to have a conversation with me about the area and his actions, answering my questions willingly, expressing a willing to learn and change his ways to follow the tread lightly standards, and remove the video - no. If he told me where to shove it....well, guess what - I'm gonna shove it right over to Kim and let her handle it.

Now - would I go on the internet throwing a fit, calling him names and throwing accusations around? -NO. The conversation we would have would be between him and I. It would be a polite and respectful conversation unless he deemed it different. But the minute he decides not to be polite and respectful....then the conversation is over.

Once again Big Iron, I'm sorry to use you as an example. I wasn't doing it to put you in a negative light, your video has been the one in question so it was the easiest to reference to. If you would like to talk to me more about it in private that is not a problem.
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  #135  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:11 PM
big iron big iron is offline
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No problem Peanut.....I never claimed the video of me was treading lightly....as it is clearly not.....what is in question is the video was shot in a open legal area that I have been asked by LEO's many times to extract stuck or broken rigs so if kim and ron both the area LEO's had no problem with it as it is just a mud hole......whats the beef....I will talk to the OP of the video and ask he remove it if it will pull everyones panties out of their cracks.... if he decides to keep it up not much I can do about it
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  #136  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:24 PM
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Thanks Big Iron, that is much appreciated.

Thanks for understanding also.
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  #137  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:52 PM
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Dave McMains Dave McMains is offline
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I guess I don't get it, we can post stuff on you tube and don't worry what the greenies do with it. Is that correct? I am just trying to figure out how you guys think. It just seems kind of selfish to me, you can post what ever you want even if it hurts the image of our sport, but its OK because we are in an approved ohv area and you have pulled people out of there before. I am just trying to get it right. I have only been an active wheeler since 1974 and I guess I don't have a clue how it really works.
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  #138  
Old 11-25-2009, 10:04 PM
big iron big iron is offline
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Dave.....It would be no different than you going over on the eastside like the climb in your avatar and coming up to a ledge hooking some rocks that were loose and dislodging them.....STILL ruining resources correct? BUT and the key word is BUT it is dry so its OK.....I do get it quite well and I have wheeled responsibly for many years almost as many as you but I am tired of trying to make my point to you....YOU don't get it....I will try to get the video removed by the person that shot and posted it
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  #139  
Old 11-25-2009, 10:11 PM
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Dave McMains Dave McMains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big iron View Post
Very accurate statement trashy.....I for one want to help the cause and keep things open....
So why give them video to take to the authorities to get us kicked out?


this bickering just plays into the greenies hands the more we divide the stronger they become and the more we lose.....we need to all stand for the same cause.....The use of our natural resources for recreation with motorized vehicles
But we have to do it your way, I have not heard that anything us older wheelers have suggested is even in your relm of consideration. I wonder if you ever remember when you were still living at home with your parents, and how STUPID they were, and how they got so much smarter as you got older... we have ideas too but for what ever reason they are old and(according to youu) dont work. I am more confused now than ever. When we were young we had all kinds of places to go and as time passes we have less and less, but we are not allowed to use the ideas we have, no we have to do it the younger generations way. So how is the change working for ya?[/color]
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  #140  
Old 11-25-2009, 10:23 PM
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Dave McMains Dave McMains is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big iron View Post
Dave.....It would be no different than you going over on the eastside like the climb in your avatar and coming up to a ledge hooking some rocks that were loose and dislodging them.....STILL ruining resources correct? BUT and the key word is BUT it is dry so its OK.....I do get it quite well and I have wheeled responsibly for many years almost as many as you but I am tired of trying to make my point to you....YOU don't get it....I will try to get the video removed by the person that shot and posted it
Thanks for the offer, but we have to take a look at everything we do, not just the one video, it is everything.
I read Arlene's report from the DNR today and it said they had a Reiter enforcement patrol this last weekend and issued 5 violation tickets, 3 to wheelers and 2 to rock climbers, that was the first time I ever heard rock climbers were up there, why isnt this front page news? because nobody cares about rock climbers but you can bet there will be repercussions about the wheelers! This is something we need to work on, our image, we have to be cleaner than the next user group up there, just to stay even with them and if we want to get ahead, we have to be better than all. That is my point.
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