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  #61  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:20 AM
Rhino Rhino is offline
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Originally Posted by pokey
Yes I removed your post. (moved it actualy) You broke some very basic rules by cross posting from a private area. This was explained to you in a PM. I locked the thread at 11:30 because I didnt feel like babysitting all night. Its open now as planned so please continue on. Jim

But by doing so you also removed all the pertinent information regarding how these rumors started. Now you swept it under the rug.

And hid it away in your own private little world.

There was valid points in the post that Peanut put up.

By keeping these Accusations "SECRET" Then the only your group of people get to have any input about what is being said.

NO ONE else gets to comment or defend the things being said. I for one have wondered since the beggining who and where these original accusations were coming from.

I plan to re-post what you deleted here so more people can see it. If you delete then I will post it on other boards so EVERYONE knows not only where this started but who is protecting them.
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  #62  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:24 AM
big iron big iron is offline
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Location: west seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Waugh View Post
Got to hand it to the folks up north. You sure do things somewhat differently.
A club that is anti-club, but takes new members, not many meetings (hopefully to discuss image and ethics), a lot of the members don't get along, not many runs because everyone is broke (not that much different than a lot of others in that).

A club has some measure of control and influence over the membership just by the fact that when someone joins said club, they agree to abide by the rules, regulations, and mores of said club. At this point in time the club has a serious image issue plain and simple. The image given by the videos, along with the logo are enough to be an issue with the non-motorized public. The club needs to take action to improve that image, then maybe the rest of the wheeling world will start to say "hey lets see where this is going, and we will work with you". Until that happens (taking care of issues in your own house) you will continue to get flack. You might have to start ejecting members, and even go so far as to change the logo and eliminate the acronym and just use the full name. (suggestion-if you still want to use the bird, try an upside feathered version over an open palm)

By what I saw in the videos, and the statements made by Bunk concerning the makeup of the club, they appear to have very few if any of the above mentioned attributes. I personally do not know any of these folks in that club, but I regard what I have seen as being done by a bunch of renegades, and I don't care if they are wearing a legitimate decal or a knock-off or none at all. You do have options if anyh of this is being done by people who have made knock-off decals. Personally I don't see anyone going to the trouble and expense of time, energy, and money to "frame" the club, unless you have really bent someone's frame horns way out of shape.

My nickle an I sure don't expect any change back.
I am still baffled as to what is not legal in the mud pit video......will you please elaborate as to what violations are highlighted in it? Like I have stated previously.... it was a legal area to operate a motor vehicle with the sherriffs and rangers blessing(numerous requests from them to enter the area in question to pull out stuck unprepared rigs) so what is your gripe about the third video? You eastside guys need to get to know the rules that apply on this side before you bring out the lynch mob.....If I went over to the medows on the other side of the hill and did a bunch of doughnuts string me up...(I would have it coming) but what is in the third video is a big mudhole in a open area and you people are saying that it is not OK to drive in it.....Get a grip......I have a very GOOD reputation on this side with LEO's as well as fellow wheelers as a guy that will help out whatever the need....You folks that do not know us and watch a couple videos and form a opinion after NEVER even being in the area in question to see that it is a legit TRAIL you need to do some more research before trying to put us under the bus.
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  #63  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:28 AM
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dirk dirk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
There has been a moretorium on new membership for the last year plus. There was a big push in the last 2 years of people wanting to join the club. Once we saw it start getting out of hand we kyboshed it. The club was turning into something that needed to managed and watched over. That was never our intention when forming this club.
I thought Money Mark recently joined the team?
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  #64  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:29 AM
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WHITE TRASH WHITE TRASH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big iron View Post
I am still baffled as to what is not legal in the mud pit video......will you please elaborate as to what violations are highlighted in it? Like I have stated previously.... it was a legal area to operate a motor vehicle with the sherriffs and rangers blessing(numerous requests from them to enter the area in question to pull out stuck unprepared rigs) so what is your gripe about the third video? You eastside guys need to get to know the rules that apply on this side before you bring out the lynch mob.....If I went over to the medows on the other side of the hill and did a bunch of doughnuts string me up...(I would have it coming) but what is in the third video is a big mudhole in a open area and you people are saying that it is not OK to drive in it.....Get a grip......I have a very GOOD reputation on this side with LEO's as well as fellow wheelers as a guy that will help out whatever the need....You folks that do not know us and watch a couple videos and form a opinion after NEVER even being in the area in question to see that it is a legit TRAIL you need to do some more research before trying to put us under the bus.


That right there is the biggest problem IMO. I'm an eastsider but I know many of the west siders and how things work over there and that many of the trails at Reiter are just like that with big mudholes (think Rimrock in spring fellow eastsiders...)
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If anything I do or say offends you then good. Political Correctness has done what for us exactly? It is time to adopt the tactics of the opposition before you are defeated by your own unwillingness to risk offending those that wish to destroy our hobby and way of life.
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  #65  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:47 AM
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PistonsChick PistonsChick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHITE TRASH View Post
If anything I do or say offends you then good. Political Correctness has done what for us exactly? It is time to adopt the tactics of the opposition before you are defeated by your own unwillingness to risk offending those that wish to destroy our hobby and way of life.
Holy crap, "Trashy" - we actually agree on something...

Crystal

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  #66  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Art Waugh Art Waugh is offline
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Since I am not from the area in question (and also not an "eastsider" either), I am not making a call as to if the actions depicted are legal or not. I AM suggesting that ethically they are very questionable in light of how others view us.

I was involved in a collaborative workshop for a National Forest in Oregon a few years back when I was the Oregon Exec. A lady in the workshop who was a birdwatcher came to me with a picture that was sent to her (or she aquired from somewhere). It was taken in a draw with rocks, mud, water, trees, etc. The trail was torn up and it showed a rig attempting a "stairstep" ledge. The photo was on either a catalog or magizine front page. It clearly stated that it was take on private property (an OHV park in one of the southeastern states) where the use was ALLOWED and LEGAL. When this was pointed out in the disclaimer on the page, it still made no difference to her and her group. We were tearing up the enviornment, plain and simple.

This is what we face everytime something of this nature surfaces and hits the public arena. I doubt you have even seen the uproar of that sediment reaching a fish bearing stream yet (if it does) that these have caused or will cause. If they are seriously considering tearing out 4 dams on the Snake to help solve the fish issue, (along with 4 more on the Klamath, which is virtually a done deal), we don't stand any chance in h*** of keeping areas open with this kind of portrayal.
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  #67  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:50 AM
big iron big iron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post
I thought Money Mark recently joined the team?
Mark did but he started the process long ago.....It is not easy to get in..... that is why we are here to defend ourselves
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  #68  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:54 AM
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Dave McMains Dave McMains is offline
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Would you consider what they were doing as Treading Lightly? I for one do not like the fact that we have a image to project and churning up the mud is not helping. The "anti" groups eat that stuff up and use it to get trails closed(Reiter)? I know that some tree huggers were in there last weekend to survey the "Damage to the environment". I know they look at the videos you post, heck they probably have your web page bookmarked because they know every time you go out they can get more "evidence!" I have to agree with some one in the possibility that the "Anti" groups may have taken out the fence. I also do not have a clue on how to find out who did it, but to just sit back and say everyone is picking on my club, will not find the culprit. Dont whine make some calls, talk to the land managers ask questions. Be on the lookout. Be responsible. That will get you into the good graces of the off road users quicker than anything else, if you want to be in the good graces. It sounds like you do.
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  #69  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:58 AM
Art Waugh Art Waugh is offline
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Thanks Dave, well put.
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1988 Cherokee 4 door, 3" Rancho lift, custom sliders/steps, custom roof rack, custom camo paint, custom camo headliner, custom bumpers and Warn 9500 HS, 31-10.50's

Only 31's, but can drag self with either rig

BLM John Day/Snake RAC-OHV Representative

Wolfpack 4x4's - Region 5 - "Cave Lupum"

VP- Outcast Land Use Review Team
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  #70  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:04 PM
big iron big iron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Waugh View Post
Since I am not from the area in question (and also not an "eastsider" either), I am not making a call as to if the actions depicted are legal or not. I AM suggesting that ethically they are very questionable in light of how others view us.

I was involved in a collaborative workshop for a National Forest in Oregon a few years back when I was the Oregon Exec. A lady in the workshop who was a birdwatcher came to me with a picture that was sent to her (or she aquired from somewhere). It was taken in a draw with rocks, mud, water, trees, etc. The trail was torn up and it showed a rig attempting a "stairstep" ledge. The photo was on either a catalog or magizine front page. It clearly stated that it was take on private property (an OHV park in one of the southeastern states) where the use was ALLOWED and LEGAL. When this was pointed out in the disclaimer on the page, it still made no difference to her and her group. We were tearing up the enviornment, plain and simple.

This is what we face everytime something of this nature surfaces and hits the public arena. I doubt you have even seen the uproar of that sediment reaching a fish bearing stream yet (if it does) that these have caused or will cause. If they are seriously considering tearing out 4 dams on the Snake to help solve the fish issue, (along with 4 more on the Klamath, which is virtually a done deal), we don't stand any chance in h*** of keeping areas open with this kind of portrayal.
People are going to form an opinion based on first impressions.......I agree with that 100% but...... the attack on the third video is like......I will put it into PNW logic.... It would be like one of you barrel racers going to the track with your badass short coarse jeep only to be told that the track is closed because somebody sitting in the stands got a bit of dirt on them.....it is the same logic you are bringing to the table here........because it was a open area.....Maybe I just don't get it? But I think I do......rigs are far more capable than in the past and we all need to work together to keep what little areas that remain open. and we do have several streams with runoff issues to deal with at reiter.
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