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  #21  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
I am an ORV Ranger with the Naches Ranger District. If you are on your way there and you are 75" with 35psi you are good to go. If you air down and are 76" then you are restricted from running the trail. If the Ranger thought 76" was ok the restriction would of been 76". We do measure rigs.

Find someone with a legal rig and go for a ride with them. Quite frankly there is very little challenge except for the narrow twisty section through the tree's (there is no hillclimb challenge). That section is after the first half of the trail which is nothing other than a drive on a narrow open trail cut into the sidehill.

This is no longer the "Little Rattlesnake" of the old days.
That sounds like my high geared CJ5 just maybe able to do it. She doesn't do good crawling up hill climbs.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceg_ View Post
That sounds like my high geared CJ5 just maybe able to do it. She doesn't do good crawling up hill climbs.
The steepest hill on the trail has concrete boat launch logs embeded in the trail. These logs are perhaps 8' long x 12 or 14" wide with rake marks across them lengthwise (for traction) with 2 or 3" between each Launch log. They cover the trail for perhaps 25 yards. They were used for an area where the soils would not handle being tread upon.
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
The steepest hill on the trail has concrete boat launch logs embeded in the trail. These logs are perhaps 8' long x 12 or 14" wide with rake marks across them lengthwise (for traction) with 2 or 3" between each Launch log. They cover the trail for perhaps 25 yards. They were used for an area where the soils would not handle being tread upon.
Thanks for the info.
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  #24  
Old 08-09-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
I am an ORV Ranger with the Naches Ranger District. If you are on your way there and you are 75" with 35psi you are good to go. If you air down and are 76" then you are restricted from running the trail. If the Ranger thought 76" was ok the restriction would of been 76". We do measure rigs.

Find someone with a legal rig and go for a ride with them. Quite frankly there is very little challenge except for the narrow twisty section through the tree's (there is no hillclimb challenge). That section is after the first half of the trail which is nothing other than a drive on a narrow open trail cut into the sidehill.

This is no longer the "Little Rattlesnake" of the old days.

So then Im good to run it so long as I dont air down. Thats kinda weak but I will abide by the rules even though I think there outdated in my opinion.

By the way my rig is on stock TJ axles with 8" rims. the only reason Im at 76" is because I run a 13.5 tire. Some of my friends that are running the same setup except on a 12.5 tire are within the limit so I think this rule is a little B.S.

How did the forrest service come up with this restriction? Did they try to run anything with a wider stance? Or was it just on the opinions of a select few?

To me it seams like the F.S. helped to build a "private" trail for a vast minority. I would say congratulations on reopening a trail but I find that hard to say. At least when the buggy people build a trail its restricted by how your rig is built but all are welcome to try at your own risk, which is how I believe most trails should be built. I mean so long as Im not cutting down trees or causing any trail damage I should be able to run it. Let me run it at my own risk to my personal vehicle damage.

Oh well

See ya on the trail, I'll be the one running it on overinflated tire's, but I will be running it
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  #25  
Old 08-09-2010, 05:25 PM
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I came upon a few shindig wheelers this weekend, real nice folks & it was great to meet you...one was a little defensive, but I understand where he's coming from. Like we were discussing, I'm not fussing about the opening of the trail, I'm glad to see it. My frustration is that I can't continue to run it as I've done for many years, till now...I'm really over & have accepted it, BUT

IMO, It's just the lack of judgement by whomever made the decisions on setting these limits on a public trail. An example was given that if they had made the limitation to meet my jeeps requirements (78" @ 6 psi x 100") then what would the next guy have to say who was at (80"x112").

My thoughts were that we should have the choice...& again what if some one got into the trail and were trapped between trees, due to being to large? What does one do then?

After giving this some additional thought, I'd have to make the effort & sacrifice of my jeep to pull it through the obstacle w/out cutting trees or damaging the terrain, to lessen the impact on the trail for other users...it would be my choice to put myself in that situation.

The primary reason for these limitations is to prevent the widening & abuse of the trail. It's already happening, what's being done to prevent this? I understand the previous post about tire pressures, as I've asked the same question?

Good discussions, we could've continued our conversation, but we were out enjoying OUR hobby so we moved on. Sorry for being so long winded, this could go on, but I'm done...again it was a pleasure meeting you shindig wheelers this past weekend, hope to see you again
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  #26  
Old 08-09-2010, 08:39 PM
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Default New trail building philosophy?

I think there should be all types of trails for all types of vehicles.

Realistically, this is the only trail that the short/narrow folks have to play on. Good for them...they fought long & hard to get it opened back up.

Let's let them enjoy it.

I myself am interested in a different type of trail experience...rocks, ledges, offcamber, lockers required, body damage expected, better bring some spare parts, if you didn't almost roll you're doing it wrong. You know...the good stuff.

The Quack Attack trail looks fun, the improvements to Rainier Vista @ Elbe are a good start, I hear there is talk of a rock garden at Rimrock, there are efforts underway to create a rock area at Walker, Tillamook has the Crushers, Ground Hog Rock Pit looks awesome, I hear talk of some badass rock trails being planned at Reiter...even some shotcrete stuff

This is exciting to me, but I have already heard whispers that the trails are being built too extreme, too difficult, or that some of the trails have morphed into something they are not equipped to conquer.

I'd ask everyone to work together & support all efforts to build new trails or improve old/existing systems. Times are changing, but we still need to remember where we started.

What I am trying to say is, we shouldn't expect to be able to take our "wider" rigs on every single trail in the PNW...just like the old timers (for lack of a better term) shouldn't expect to be able to navigate every trail in the PNW with 31" tires, short wheel base & no lockers.

It's only fair
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post
I think there should be all types of trails for all types of vehicles.

...

It's only fair
x2
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:45 AM
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Couldn't agree more!
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2010, 12:55 PM
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What I am trying to say is, we shouldn't expect to be able to take our "wider" rigs on every single trail in the PNW...just like the old timers (for lack of a better term) shouldn't expect to be able to navigate every trail in the PNW with 31" tires, short wheel base & no lockers.

Old timer... I like it. Thats me to a tee. I totally agree, different rigs different trails. I love to get off road with something a little more than a flat gravel road with 4% grade. But don't really want to spend the time and money it would take to prepare my rig for some of the wilder uh, roads. Found a perfect spot up in Elbe Hills with my grandaugher, we both had a blast. Hope I can find it again.
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post

The Quack Attack trail looks fun, the improvements to Rainier Vista @ Elbe are a good start, I hear there is talk of a rock garden at Rimrock, there are efforts underway to create a rock area at Walker, Tillamook has the Crushers, Ground Hog Rock Pit looks awesome, I hear talk of some badass rock trails being planned at Reiter...even some shotcrete stuff

This is exciting to me, but I have already heard whispers that the trails are being built too extreme, too difficult, or that some of the trails have morphed into something they are not equipped to conquer.

I'd ask everyone to work together & support all efforts to build new trails or improve old/existing systems. Times are changing, but we still need to remember where we started.

What I am trying to say is, we shouldn't expect to be able to take our "wider" rigs on every single trail in the PNW...just like the old timers (for lack of a better term) shouldn't expect to be able to navigate every trail in the PNW with 31" tires, short wheel base & no lockers.

It's only fair

But whats going to stop the "old timers" from trying to run these new harder trails that are being built? Are they going to put in a minimum tire size requirement? And if so what will be the penalty if they try to run it anyways? Really there is going to be nothing to stop them from trying to run them except for there own personal judgement. And whats to say they will have better judgement than myself or anyone else for that matter? Is it because there "old timers" and they know right from wrong and can read a trail better than anyone else? Remember, even with there great judgement the "old timers" were cutting illegal trails and getting trails shut down long before alot of the younger wheelers that are out today even had there drivers license


Or what they do run these harder trails and have to stack rocks and do not put them back winch alot , break parts and cause a huge bottle neck on the trail, then what? Probably nothing more than some people being upset at them and maybe getting into a yelling match. BUT if I run the little rattlesnake at trail pressure and cause NO damage to the trail but forrest service is waiting at the end with a tape measure I can get a $5000 fine and possible jail time for having a 1/2" too much of rubber on either side sticking out

So really the "old Timers" can run or at least try to run ANY trail so I wont buy into this "they should get there own private trail"

But dont get me wrong, I DO believe in trail restrictions. I just thing they should come in the form of well built "gate keepers" that give an actual representation of the trail. If you cant get through the gate keeper then you wont be on the trail. Personally if the "gate keeper" might damage my rig then I probably wont want to go on the trail. I also think that would look better for the off road community in the sense that instead of reading about another offroader getting caught on such and such trail for being too wide, we may be reading about how the trails are in great shape and the "gate keepers" are doing there job.
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