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  #31  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:27 PM
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What I am trying to say is, we shouldn't expect to be able to take our "wider" rigs on every single trail in the PNW...just like the old timers (for lack of a better term) shouldn't expect to be able to navigate every trail in the PNW with 31" tires, short wheel base & no lockers.
Old timer... I like it. Thats me to a tee. I totally agree, different rigs different trails. I love to get off road with something a little more than a flat gravel road with 4% grade. But don't really want to spend the time and money it would take to prepare my rig for some of the wilder uh, roads. Found a perfect spot up in Elbe Hills with my grandaugher, we both had a blast. Hope I can find it again.
My point was that if the wider rigs are going to support some narrow trails, then the narrow folks better be prepared to support some wider, hardcore, break your shiat type trails...it's only fair
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  #32  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:54 PM
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But whats going to stop the "old timers" from trying to run these new harder trails that are being built? Are they going to put in a minimum tire size requirement? And if so what will be the penalty if they try to run it anyways? Really there is going to be nothing to stop them from trying to run them except for there own personal judgement. And whats to say they will have better judgement than myself or anyone else for that matter? Is it because there "old timers" and they know right from wrong and can read a trail better than anyone else? Remember, even with there great judgement the "old timers" were cutting illegal trails and getting trails shut down long before alot of the younger wheelers that are out today even had there drivers license


Or what they do run these harder trails and have to stack rocks and do not put them back winch alot , break parts and cause a huge bottle neck on the trail, then what? Probably nothing more than some people being upset at them and maybe getting into a yelling match. BUT if I run the little rattlesnake at trail pressure and cause NO damage to the trail but forrest service is waiting at the end with a tape measure I can get a $5000 fine and possible jail time for having a 1/2" too much of rubber on either side sticking out

So really the "old Timers" can run or at least try to run ANY trail so I wont buy into this "they should get there own private trail"

But dont get me wrong, I DO believe in trail restrictions. I just thing they should come in the form of well built "gate keepers" that give an actual representation of the trail. If you cant get through the gate keeper then you wont be on the trail. Personally if the "gate keeper" might damage my rig then I probably wont want to go on the trail. I also think that would look better for the off road community in the sense that instead of reading about another offroader getting caught on such and such trail for being too wide, we may be reading about how the trails are in great shape and the "gate keepers" are doing there job.
I don't really give a shiat if the "old timers" run the hardcore trails...more power to them...but I better not hear anyone bitching about the trail being too difficult.

I am prepared to support narrow trails IF others are prepared to support the hardcore insanity that will keep the extreme folks interested.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound butt hurt over the restrictions...why not run the trail at "street" pressure and move on with life? Or just run it aired down & suffer the penalty if you get caught & they feel like writing a ticket.

Disclaimer: we are only talking about a 1/2 inch difference...I wouldn't support a wide rig running Little Rattlesnake.

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  #33  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:15 PM
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This discussion should be taken over to the WOW forum, the PNW folks sure don't seem to care?
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  #34  
Old 08-10-2010, 07:47 PM
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I don't really give a shiat if the "old timers" run the hardcore trails...more power to them...but I better not hear anyone bitching about the trail being too difficult.

I am prepared to support narrow trails IF others are prepared to support the hardcore insanity that will keep the extreme folks interested.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you sound butt hurt over the restrictions...why not run the trail at "street" pressure and move on with life? Or just run it aired down & suffer the penalty if you get caught & they feel like writing a ticket.

Disclaimer: we are only talking about a 1/2 inch difference...I wouldn't support a wide rig running Little Rattlesnake.


Nope, not butt hurt at all. If I was an admin would have to edit my posts due to foul language. And I will be running the trail at street pressure.

I just dont agree at all with how the width restrictions are being dealt with.

I also read on other boards about how people do not want to join the pnw4wda because they think they are still stuck in there old school ways. And it seems that they are right, and this trail kinda proves it to me.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:50 PM
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This discussion should be taken over to the WOW forum, the PNW folks sure don't seem to care?

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Old 08-10-2010, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wood View Post
But whats going to stop the "old timers" from trying to run these new harder trails that are being built? Are they going to put in a minimum tire size requirement? And if so what will be the penalty if they try to run it anyways? Really there is going to be nothing to stop them from trying to run them except for there own personal judgement. And whats to say they will have better judgement than myself or anyone else for that matter? Is it because there "old timers" and they know right from wrong and can read a trail better than anyone else? Remember, even with there great judgement the "old timers" were cutting illegal trails and getting trails shut down long before alot of the younger wheelers that are out today even had there drivers license


Or what they do run these harder trails and have to stack rocks and do not put them back winch alot , break parts and cause a huge bottle neck on the trail, then what? Probably nothing more than some people being upset at them and maybe getting into a yelling match. BUT if I run the little rattlesnake at trail pressure and cause NO damage to the trail but forrest service is waiting at the end with a tape measure I can get a $5000 fine and possible jail time for having a 1/2" too much of rubber on either side sticking out

So really the "old Timers" can run or at least try to run ANY trail so I wont buy into this "they should get there own private trail"

But dont get me wrong, I DO believe in trail restrictions. I just thing they should come in the form of well built "gate keepers" that give an actual representation of the trail. If you cant get through the gate keeper then you wont be on the trail. Personally if the "gate keeper" might damage my rig then I probably wont want to go on the trail. I also think that would look better for the off road community in the sense that instead of reading about another offroader getting caught on such and such trail for being too wide, we may be reading about how the trails are in great shape and the "gate keepers" are doing there job.
Heres the problem with gate keepers alone. A gate keeper will NOT keep a wider rig out. In fact not much of anything can stop a well set up buggy off a trail thats to narrow for it. We all know that some people out there have no issue with climbing up trees and stripping the bark off 8 feet off of the ground. The only real way the FS can moderate use of a trail is to post restrictions and then back them up with heavy fines. Nothing stops someone from doing something like the possibility of a heavy fine. BTW there already are gate keepers on this trail. Their called trees and someone has already cut down several of them because they couldnt fit. See the need for fines now ?
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  #37  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:21 PM
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This discussion should be taken over to the WOW forum, the PNW folks sure don't seem to care?
Not really true. Who provided the work for the last 10 years to get this trail back ?
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  #38  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wood View Post
I also read on other boards about how people do not want to join the pnw4wda because they think they are still stuck in there old school ways. And it seems that they are right, and this trail kinda proves it to me.
The trails were ALL narrow in the beginning...rig evolution changed that. I don't think it is out of line to have ONE trail that reminds them of the good ol' days.

Do I think that a narrow restricted trail is the hot ticket...nope.

Do I think that a wider trail could be built that would challenge all users...yep.

The perception that tight & twisty = difficult is the problem.
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  #39  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:30 PM
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Their called trees and someone has already cut down several of them because they couldnt fit. See the need for fines now ?
I wonder if the tree cutting users drove a "buggy"...I can guarantee they didn't...a "buggy" would have slipped right through the trail. IMHO unprepared mall crawlers are the ones cutting trees
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  #40  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:31 PM
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Nope, not butt hurt at all. If I was an admin would have to edit my posts due to foul language. And I will be running the trail at street pressure.

I just dont agree at all with how the width restrictions are being dealt with.

I also read on other boards about how people do not want to join the pnw4wda because they think they are still stuck in there old school ways. And it seems that they are right, and this trail kinda proves it to me.
Most PNW4WDA members have learned to build their rigs to fit the trail. They do not expect the to change the trail to fit their particular rig.

One thing that nobody seems to be considering here is where this trail is located. Take a good look at the map and notice that the areas on both sides of the trail are "roadless" areas. The trail itself is in a riparian zone and a LSR. I fought for years just to keep this trail from disappearing and the whole area becomeing "roadless. Part of the reason for the narrow restriction is to help limit the number of vehicles that use this area. If it was wide enough for a full size then it would be seeing a lot more use then the FS thinks the area can support. Remember that this trail historicly seen very little use due to its shortness and just general lack of notiriety. Now with the internet its suddenly gotten famous and this just another thing the FS didnt really want to see happen. This is something we all have to deal with so lets
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