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  #21  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:03 PM
EagleMark EagleMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post

I do still believe that the comments about the FS made by the PNW4WDA Idaho state Director were ignorant and irresponsible. You should know better than that. Follow the fine example set by the Oregon and Washington Directors. Think first, think twice, then speak.
The truth hurts sometimes! Can't go back in time and let the Forrest service close trails for invalid reasons. If what I said was not true over history then why is there so many activist groups fighting to keep public land open?

Now I am not familiar with the trails mentioned and no one has explained what Eco damage can be caused by traffic on memorial day? If it's the fell trees? Like I said earlier that is no reason to close trails! Just a normal day of wheelin here in Idaho if you can get to them before the fire wood cutters cut them up and take them home.
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:32 PM
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Default Camping for Memorial Day? Forget the Little Naches

http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories...-little-naches
Camping for Memorial Day? Forget the Little Naches
By SCOTT SANDSBERRY
Yakima Herald-Republic


Photo courtesy of U.S. Forest Service
A Forest Service trail maintenance worker assesses downed trees across the very popular Parallel Trail (no. 941) in the Little Naches area near Cliffdell, Wash. The Little Naches area has been closed to motorized entry through Memorial Day weekend and possibly longer.


YAKIMA, Wash. -- For many families, Memorial Day weekend annually means a camping trip to the Little Naches.

Not this year.

The Little Naches -- a popular recreation destination of campgrounds, dispersed camping areas and countless trail systems in and around the Little Naches River drainage north of State Route 410 -- will be closed to motorized entry through Memorial Day weekend and perhaps longer.

The Naches Ranger Station announced the closure Wednesday after determining all the downed trees, wet trails and late snow could be hazardous to visitors. And motorized visitors, meanwhile, could in turn damage all those wet trails.

"We suspect the downed-tree problem is pretty widespread," District Ranger Randy Shepard said, noting that much of the damage came when a January thaw was followed by a significant windstorm.

A member of a Yakima motorcycle club whose volunteers cleared about two miles on the Parallel (941) and Fife's Ridge (954) trails last weekend in the Little Naches can attest to the damage.

"It's messy. It's just downed tree after tree after tree," said Doug Huff of the Dust Dodgers club. "And it's not just small trees -- it's big trees and small trees, entangled messes. It's too wet to be up there. There's more snow up there than I thought there'd be."

The closure area begins at the intersection of Forest Road 1900 (Little Naches Road) and 1902 (Crow Creek). The Little Naches and Kaner Flat campgrounds, with 58 campsites between them, will be open, as will the Kaner Flat reservation site.

But that's it. Everything basically west and north of the Milk Creek (1708) road, north of State Route 410 and east of the Norse Peak Wilderness will be closed to motorized use until further notice.

"It's going to impact a lot of people," Huff said. "On Memorial weekend, generally that place is packed out.

"The next challenge is, when these people arrive and find the place closed for the Memorial weekend camping trip, where are they going to go? They're not going to go home. Most of that use is going to be pushed off to other areas."

To where, though, is the question.

"We really don't have any good options for motorized users," Shepard said. "If people just want to camp and do other activities, the South Fork of the Tieton has some areas, the Nile area is open and most of it is snow-free. But we're still trying to scope out what things are happening and the extent of the damage."

District enforcement officer Blair Bickel said officials are trying to get cooperation from the public, but that people violating the motorized closure could be fined.
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  #23  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:53 PM
EagleMark EagleMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceg_ View Post
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories...-little-naches
Camping for Memorial Day? Forget the Little Naches
By SCOTT SANDSBERRY
Yakima Herald-Republic


Photo courtesy of U.S. Forest Service
A Forest Service trail maintenance worker assesses downed trees across the very popular Parallel Trail (no. 941) in the Little Naches area near Cliffdell, Wash. The Little Naches area has been closed to motorized entry through Memorial Day weekend and possibly longer.


YAKIMA, Wash. -- For many families, Memorial Day weekend annually means a camping trip to the Little Naches.

Not this year.

The Little Naches -- a popular recreation destination of campgrounds, dispersed camping areas and countless trail systems in and around the Little Naches River drainage north of State Route 410 -- will be closed to motorized entry through Memorial Day weekend and perhaps longer.

The Naches Ranger Station announced the closure Wednesday after determining all the downed trees, wet trails and late snow could be hazardous to visitors. And motorized visitors, meanwhile, could in turn damage all those wet trails.

"We suspect the downed-tree problem is pretty widespread," District Ranger Randy Shepard said, noting that much of the damage came when a January thaw was followed by a significant windstorm.

A member of a Yakima motorcycle club whose volunteers cleared about two miles on the Parallel (941) and Fife's Ridge (954) trails last weekend in the Little Naches can attest to the damage.

"It's messy. It's just downed tree after tree after tree," said Doug Huff of the Dust Dodgers club. "And it's not just small trees -- it's big trees and small trees, entangled messes. It's too wet to be up there. There's more snow up there than I thought there'd be."

The closure area begins at the intersection of Forest Road 1900 (Little Naches Road) and 1902 (Crow Creek). The Little Naches and Kaner Flat campgrounds, with 58 campsites between them, will be open, as will the Kaner Flat reservation site.

But that's it. Everything basically west and north of the Milk Creek (1708) road, north of State Route 410 and east of the Norse Peak Wilderness will be closed to motorized use until further notice.

"It's going to impact a lot of people," Huff said. "On Memorial weekend, generally that place is packed out.

"The next challenge is, when these people arrive and find the place closed for the Memorial weekend camping trip, where are they going to go? They're not going to go home. Most of that use is going to be pushed off to other areas."

To where, though, is the question.

"We really don't have any good options for motorized users," Shepard said. "If people just want to camp and do other activities, the South Fork of the Tieton has some areas, the Nile area is open and most of it is snow-free. But we're still trying to scope out what things are happening and the extent of the damage."

District enforcement officer Blair Bickel said officials are trying to get cooperation from the public, but that people violating the motorized closure could be fined.
Still have not seen any reason to close anything? Just an excuse from someone in power to impose his or her personal eco extremision on off roaders.
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  #24  
Old 05-14-2009, 02:10 PM
EagleMark EagleMark is offline
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Now if it's closed and motorized vehicles will be fined? How is anyone going to clean it up?

Are chain saws outlawed in washington? Are off roaders not allowed to clean up fell trees? Come on tell me why? I don't understand... if there are trails like that here they would be cleared by the memorail day crowds, best time to have more help!
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleMark View Post
The truth hurts sometimes! Can't go back in time and let the Forrest service close trails for invalid reasons. If what I said was not true over history then why is there so many activist groups fighting to keep public land open?

Now I am not familiar with the trails mentioned and no one has explained what Eco damage can be caused by traffic on memorial day? If it's the fell trees? Like I said earlier that is no reason to close trails! Just a normal day of wheelin here in Idaho if you can get to them before the fire wood cutters cut them up and take them home.
Do you truely believe that it is the FS that is conspiring to close these areas.

Or is it some pro-enviromental group working to close the land thru lawsuits and making the FS enforce FS policy. Then you should go back and edit your comment to reflect what is truely happening.

There are many activist groups from each side. Some extreme some not so. Each on their own agenda (often common agenda's). That's who we work with and against.


As to your other comments about tree clearing. I think you have a narrow understanding as to the situation that exist both here and in the forest near your home. That is the trails are still snow covered. Many of the trees are infact buried by a lot of snow. If there were no snow clearing the trail would be no problem but that is not the case.

Instead many wheelers will come to the blocked section of trail and bypass thinking what the **** it's only snow we are running on. Next group comes by and does the same thinking we are not the one who established the bypass it must be ok. After the bypass has been traversed many times there will be a breakthru to ground. Now the bypass has a resource impact/damage. Moisture has become the issue in this case some of the moisture is snow and ice.

Now you come to the large tire large vehicle issue. These type vehicles can just flat out traverse the snow covered terrain better than the smaller vehicles. We won't make issue of the fact that they are on a trail designed for short whellbase/narrow tracked vehicle cause apparently everyone has the "RIGHT" to go where they please in any vehicle they see fit to use. They excercise the "Make the trail fit the vehicle" philosophy. Damage occurs. And they are somehow not held accountable and continue to deny their rigs are doing more damage to the trails than the smaller rigs.

Am I to believe that the short wheelbase/narrow tracked vehicle have somehow gone wild and widened the trails and dug holes the smaller rigs can not traverse. I think not. Study some of the terms that are used by the "Wilderness" crowd. They speak of their tranquility being disturbed. They also speak that they seek solitude and our actions disturb that and them. Well I seek tight techinical trails and they are becoming more and more scarce. Where are my rights? I also am concerned of the problems noted and worry of complete closures. We saw the beginings of this years ago and now we have met the enemy and it ain't necessarly them that are openly against us. Yeah the truth hurts.
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  #26  
Old 05-14-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
Am I to believe that the short wheelbase/narrow tracked vehicle have somehow gone wild and widened the trails and dug holes the smaller rigs can not traverse. I think not.
Well you better think again. There are people in the smaller rigs doing damage too. Are you telling me you have never seen a CJ with smaller tires spinning on the trail for fun? How many guys with CJs that have V-8s like to get on it? Sounds cool! How about the ones that keep going through the same mud puddle until it is deep? Then you have the guys that drive off the trail to go around the mud, rocks or hard part with their small rigs. Wow now there is a new by pass.
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Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
Yeah the truth hurts.
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PNW4WDA Region 4 Public Relations
PNW4WDA Beverly Dunes Coordinator



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  #27  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:22 PM
EagleMark EagleMark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
Do you truely believe that it is the FS that is conspiring to close these areas.
Yes I do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merrick Graves View Post
Do you truely believe that it is the FS that is conspiring to close these areas.

Or is it some pro-enviromental group working to close the land thru lawsuits and making the FS enforce FS policy. Then you should go back and edit your comment to reflect what is truely happening.

There are many activist groups from each side. Some extreme some not so. Each on their own agenda (often common agenda's). That's who we work with and against.


As to your other comments about tree clearing. I think you have a narrow understanding as to the situation that exist both here and in the forest near your home. That is the trails are still snow covered. Many of the trees are infact buried by a lot of snow. If there were no snow clearing the trail would be no problem but that is not the case.

Instead many wheelers will come to the blocked section of trail and bypass thinking what the **** it's only snow we are running on. Next group comes by and does the same thinking we are not the one who established the bypass it must be ok. After the bypass has been traversed many times there will be a breakthru to ground. Now the bypass has a resource impact/damage. Moisture has become the issue in this case some of the moisture is snow and ice.

Now you come to the large tire large vehicle issue. These type vehicles can just flat out traverse the snow covered terrain better than the smaller vehicles. We won't make issue of the fact that they are on a trail designed for short whellbase/narrow tracked vehicle cause apparently everyone has the "RIGHT" to go where they please in any vehicle they see fit to use. They excercise the "Make the trail fit the vehicle" philosophy. Damage occurs. And they are somehow not held accountable and continue to deny their rigs are doing more damage to the trails than the smaller rigs.

Am I to believe that the short wheelbase/narrow tracked vehicle have somehow gone wild and widened the trails and dug holes the smaller rigs can not traverse. I think not. Study some of the terms that are used by the "Wilderness" crowd. They speak of their tranquility being disturbed. They also speak that they seek solitude and our actions disturb that and them. Well I seek tight techinical trails and they are becoming more and more scarce. Where are my rights? I also am concerned of the problems noted and worry of complete closures. We saw the beginings of this years ago and now we have met the enemy and it ain't necessarly them that are openly against us. Yeah the truth hurts.
OK I see now. It is not possible to clear the fell trees because they are under snow pack. The ones in the picture doses not show that. I stand corrected. I still believe the trails could be opened up for off road travel. challenges are part of off roading. These are off road trails correct? Not a road leading to the campground for instance. Snow is a wonderful challenge and in the end it melts and no signs of off roading or wheel spinning and getting stuck remain.

As I have become more familar with this area that I wish to visit someday I have learned it was created by small jeepers a long time ago. I respect your rights to keep what you have worked for! Thank you for educating me on this. If a larger vehicle like a modern jeep can't fit between trees then maybe there should be a width restriction for the old guys who created these trails. But it would be better for the entire off road community if there were bypasses to these few areas!
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:25 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceg_ View Post
Well you better think again. There are people in the smaller rigs doing damage too. Are you telling me you have never seen a CJ with smaller tires spinning on the trail for fun? How many guys with CJs that have V-8s like to get on it? Sounds cool! How about the ones that keep going through the same mud puddle until it is deep? Then you have the guys that drive off the trail to go around the mud, rocks or hard part with their small rigs. Wow now there is a new by pass.

Sure enough the little guys are very well known for doing stupid things!!!


Now would you care to explain how the trails are so wide and the holes so big that they hang up the samller rigs so that winchin' is required!!!!

Cj's gone wild could not be responsible for all of it. I'll stand behind and defend the statement "You have the right to be there". But we should not tolerate taking the fun out of the smaller guys experience just because the "Big Boys" have the right.
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:32 PM
EagleMark EagleMark is offline
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Sure enough the little guys are very well known for doing stupid things!!!


Now would you care to explain how the trails are so wide and the holes so big that they hang up the samller rigs so that winchin' is required!!!!

Cj's gone wild could not be responsible for all of it. I'll stand behind and defend the statement "You have the right to be there". But we should not tolerate taking the fun out of the smaller guys experience just because the "Big Boys" have the right.
Maybe little jeeps can gain access to quad trails?

It is still not vehicle or tire size causing the problem as much as irresposable off roaders and alcohol.
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Maybe little jeeps can gain access to quad trails?

It is still not vehicle or tire size causing the problem as much as irresposable off roaders and alcohol.

Check your resources before posting comments such as that. In Washington on FS managed lands the 4x4 trails are the quad trails. Not by our choice as the quads bring another problem to the table.

Then it comes down to the question. Is it the bullet, gun, or who has it in their hand. Make it so the big rigs can't intrude (gatekeepers) where they should not be and you stop a major part of the problem
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