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Land Matters Discussion Area Discussion Relating to Your Land/Legislative Issues

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  #91  
Old 12-10-2015, 02:10 PM
BrandenB BrandenB is offline
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Originally Posted by Art Waugh View Post
Ok, I'll just shut up, and you go out and tell the renegades that I don't stand for the values of responsible use of the resources, and take your sign up sheets with you and see what you get. Good Luck with that. If they wanted an organization of extreme rigs, they would have it in place and be working with the agencies.......I haven't seen that anywhere up here in the last 20 years. Oh yeah, and when their trail edicate doesn't change and the association's image is shot to he** with the agencies, let me know how that works out as well.

You have never spent 20+ years trying to get opportunities in an area, only to see that when you finally get it, within a couple of years it is threatened to be closed, and when you get with the agency to get another tie trail approved and in, get told to stuff it because they have seen first hand what is happening to what is there already. The agencies don't see decals, all they see is the damage and then the gates come down.




Done on this thread, probably to both of your everlasting joy. Like Dave, I'll keep paying dues until either I die or this association does, (BTW, I also pay the dues for the other 3 families in the club, yeah, my choice!) along with my associate dues. I'll keep on trying to get trails and routes for the general user and explorer, even if it doesn't meet the expectations of all of you.
Not arguing with you because I understand we are all entitled to our own opinion. But, I am curious how you would change the current problems we are speaking about? How would you keep the PNW4WDA alive? How to we bring more members in? I have only seen negative commentary from your end?
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  #92  
Old 12-10-2015, 06:10 PM
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My biggest issue is the lack of communication, as has been mentioned earlier. I've ranted about this in the past, and I'll do it again. The BOD and other "responsible" people don't use the tools available. This forum and Facebook can, if used properly, be among the best tools we have to get info out. If you look at PNW4WDA and PNW4WDA Region 4 on FB, I ain't sure but what Merrick and I post more info than anyone! You sure as h**l don't see the officers posting. McMains is about it on FB, and Sande does post minutes on the forum. We d**n sure aren't going to get anywhere the way we're going. It was alleged that we would here from Angie. I'm still waiting! Along those same lines, we got a new WA Director a year ago. I haven't a clue what he's doing. While Jim had the job, he sent all kinds of stuff about what was going on. So, I've just kept working at what I've been doing, writing letters and/or emails, talking with Earl when I have questions, going to what meetings I can, and generally being a PITA for my U.S. Rep, who sits on Natural Resources. I've even coerced his staff into going to meetings with us. Kinda got one FS guy looking sideways at us. Four years ago I was lucky enough to be invited to join Don Amador from BRC and some of the locals to powwow with the Siuslaw NF about the Oregon Dunes and closure threats. Out of my current sphere, but I grew up there, and remember what it was like 40-50 years ago, when there was actually open sand. I am fortunate to have Don as a friend now, and he has been a calming influence at times...Anyway, keep this going, we may just figure it out.
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  #93  
Old 12-10-2015, 07:27 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/notes/del-a...53316444522106
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  #94  
Old 12-10-2015, 07:39 PM
jeepndel jeepndel is offline
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http://www.pnw4wda.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3671

for more on They Are Killing Our Access...egos and personalities.
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  #95  
Old 12-10-2015, 07:39 PM
Merrick Graves Merrick Graves is offline
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Anyone know how to access the old forum. I see this as a repeat from a dozen years or so ago. Might help for everyone to reread that. Same thoughts, same suggestions going on right here, right now. The only thing that has changed is most of those taking part in those conversations then, have moved on accepting that change would not come. Most are still around they have shifted their focus on how to effect change.
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  #96  
Old 12-11-2015, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dirk View Post





Well shoot....with such warm welcome like this, I can't figure out why they aren't beating down the doors to join up.

We need them....they don't need us. It should be up to us to show value in joining the PNW4WDA.
Wrong.. They need us as much as we need them if not more so.
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  #97  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:58 AM
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Wrong.. They need us as much as we need them if not more so.
I'm interested to hear details on why you think that is true.
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  #98  
Old 12-11-2015, 08:07 AM
Jay W Jay W is offline
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Here's an "outsider"s view.
I do enjoy jeeping and have for 20+ years. I don't belong to a club and I'm not a PNW member, so I guess I'm one of the others, Bubba. If you're going to group everyone outside the circle together, I will and have for many years, do the same to you. I have know about the PNW4WDA for a long time but the image that comes across is attitudes like Jim and Art. Why would I want to be associated with people like that?
However, in recent years I have started to realize the value of the groundwork put in place by the PNW over 50+ years, yes groundwork. The group NEEDS to continue and the only way that will happen is to WELCOME new membership. You're dealing with newer generations with different views and attitudes not unlike how generations before looked at you. That doesn't mean the new kids are wrong, just different. Don't throw away your hard work with a "you owe me" attitude.
Perfect example of how this SHOULD go:
Recently I was asked by a good friend to go to a meeting. "Let's go see what this group is all about". I had heard of them before but knew next to nothing about them. Everywhere my daily travels on the internet took me, they were asking for people to come to the annual meeting. I thought wow, they are serious about this! We were welcomed, thanked, and they had great presentations that were relevant and important to our sport. We learned some inner working details about the group and of course what they are all about. I couldn't wait to get back home and show my support by joining.

I'll end with some random thoughts:

Why does the PNW not include ATV groups? Power in numbers

Communication is EVERYTHING! We live in the age of instant gratification, fast food, Google, email, texting. People want to know what's going on!

No one thinks they have the right to destroy your hard work, they simply don't know any better. Educate.

As Brandon said, offense is the best defense.

Why are the PNW board members hiding behind the curtain? That's exactly what makes me think they don't want new members disrupting the "way it's always been".

It seems the PNW is a minority in the off-road world, they should be the majority.
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  #99  
Old 12-11-2015, 08:58 AM
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Jay- Sorry if you think the attidude that Jim and I, among others, have is not welcoming. Our attitude and belief is, if you are a responsible user, you are more than welcome. What I refer to as "bubba" is the person who goes out and tears up a meadow, tears the trail all to he** with a rig that is either way under qualified to be on it, or one that is way overbuilt and they tear it up to give more of a chalenge the next time they come, or causes other types of resource damage that gives pause to the agencies we are working with to get more opportunities fo all users. As I said before, the uses and attitudes of users fro 20 to 40 years ago won't work in todays enviorns.

If this is out of place in todays world, then this association might just as well fold up right now.

As to other types of OHV's, the by-laws say 4x4 vehicles only, and there has been discussion in the past about changing that and it has gone nowhere. Maybe the time has come to have that talk again, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

Clubs and members try to educate, but in most cases it falls on deaf ears until all of the opportunities are gone, then they go "what happened, why didn't you fight to keep it open?"
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  #100  
Old 12-11-2015, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dirk View Post
I'm interested to hear details on why you think that is true.
Do you really want me to drag out that soapbox again
Seriously how far do you think we would get without a base of leadership that does the work nobody sees.
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