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  #21  
Old 12-05-2015, 10:39 PM
BrandenB BrandenB is offline
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I have a question. How do people outside of the PNW4WDA get any information about meetings or events in the area? Such as forest service meetings or PNW4WDA events?

If the PNW is failing to support the few that actually do work (such as Jim) how do we go about bringing in outside help? I feel that just telling people they need to join in order to get involved puts a bad taste in peoples mouth. Why not prove to the outsiders why they should join and participate?
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2015, 10:53 PM
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Most information on meetings and such are posted right here on this site and on several others as well sadly many people have gotten so fed up with the detractors that they have simply given up. Myself included which is why I am so glad that you have stepped up Brandon. I have also maintained a rather large email list that I use to alert people
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2015, 11:05 PM
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From my vantage point of mildly advanced age, I see a bunch of kids with no idea of what we've already lost. I've been involved with wheeling of some form for most of 50 years, and I'm not too impressed with the attitudes I see in the younger critters. It's all about "me", and they don't seem to give a s**t about what us old fogies are saying. "I just want to wheel, not sit in meetings and stuff" is what I get for the most part. I've said it before, and here it is again: the PNW needs to join the modern world in order to get the word out, and raise its public profile to the point it gets some attention! Find high profile public service projects that get some press and get involved.My club does a couple of activities every year with local special needs kids and families through the Arc of Tri Cities, and will be looking for more. And get much more involved in Olympia!! Just because we're a non profit doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on legislation. Too many of that bunch has no idea who we are. We need to forge relations with groups in other states as well to see how their dealing with things. Citizens for Balanced Use in Montana, Forest Access For All in Oregon, Sierra Access Coalition in California are groups I am friendly with, and use as sources for many of my posts. CBU and SAC are currently suing the FS over travel, and I'm watching for ammo for when we find ourselves in the same spot. And it will happen. Okay, enough from me, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
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  #24  
Old 12-05-2015, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandenB View Post
I have a question. How do people outside of the PNW4WDA get any information about meetings or events in the area? Such as forest service meetings or PNW4WDA events?

If the PNW is failing to support the few that actually do work (such as Jim) how do we go about bringing in outside help? I feel that just telling people they need to join in order to get involved puts a bad taste in peoples mouth. Why not prove to the outsiders why they should join and participate?
I'm sure the few that read this thread will take it back to their clubs/region next month. Hopefully they repeat what was said here correctly and don't twist the facts. Nothing like real-time information!
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  #25  
Old 12-05-2015, 11:14 PM
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"Nothing like real-time information!"

Now there's an understatement...
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2015, 11:23 PM
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WOW are you as good with a shovel as you are at typing LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk View Post
I would bet that if you conducted a survey of users at the ORV trails....most would say that the PNW4WDA doesn't represent them. They either won't know who the PNW4WDA is or they have some old beef with the association.

I bet if you conducted a survey you would be ticked off for wasting your time as only a small handful would respond. Most that have a beef are also those that are not involved and have gotten their opinions from detractors of the assoc. not firsthand experiences

Also...I'm calling BS on this comment from you. You've said for years that the PNW4WDA represents its members only. As you've said, if folks wanted a say, they needed to join up and attend a meeting.

Call bs all you want but pay better attention Yes I have always represented members first since their the ones that I hear from. in more recent years I have broadened my horizons as I have been more active on forums. Had you attended more of the PNW meetings and read BOD meeting minutes when I was on the BOD then you would know this.



Rimrock is awesome. Elbe is heavily influenced by the WatchThisFourwheelerz crew these days...what claim does the PNW4WDA make on what they've done? As I recall, our PNW4WDA members got pissed off several years ago and left Elbe to others to maintain. WOW and then WTF have carried the torch since then.

Elbe as with most trails wouldn't even exist without the PNWs efforts. Yes WTF has taken a lead in recent years at Elbe and is doing great things for their kind uf use (did you get that) But you do a dis service to the outcast and countyline clubs as well as other PNW4WDA clubs that put in many hours of service at Elbe. They just don't get involved on forums or these little pissing contests. And WOW Seriously ??? And for the final question do you honestly believe that ANY of these areas would exist if it wasn't for the PNW4WDAs efforts in the political ? funding arena ?(as well as on the ground) just how do you think these areas get funded ? That includes Elbe which I have been fighting tooth and nail to keep funded for what it is despite the fact it dosent fit "my" use and is very difficult to explain why its important to the NOVA members when they see the pics they see online. So please don't pretend to know me or what I do or represent you obviously haven't got a clue,

I don't think all users should expect to be able to use every mile of OHV trail...some should be easy, some should be narrow, some should be moderate & some should be so difficult only the most deranged dare to enter. So why was it OK for Grahms group to change the quack attack trail that was built by DCFW to fit their needs?

Don't try to use my employer as a dig....everyone knows REI doesn't support OHV recreation. It's a great company to work for. At least they heavily invest in their future.....we should be pissed that all OHV companies don't do the same.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2015, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
From my vantage point of mildly advanced age, I see a bunch of kids with no idea of what we've already lost. I've been involved with wheeling of some form for most of 50 years, and I'm not too impressed with the attitudes I see in the younger critters. It's all about "me", and they don't seem to give a s**t about what us old fogies are saying. "I just want to wheel, not sit in meetings and stuff" is what I get for the most part. I've said it before, and here it is again: the PNW needs to join the modern world in order to get the word out, and raise its public profile to the point it gets some attention! Find high profile public service projects that get some press and get involved.My club does a couple of activities every year with local special needs kids and families through the Arc of Tri Cities, and will be looking for more. And get much more involved in Olympia!! Just because we're a non profit doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on legislation. Too many of that bunch has no idea who we are. We need to forge relations with groups in other states as well to see how their dealing with things. Citizens for Balanced Use in Montana, Forest Access For All in Oregon, Sierra Access Coalition in California are groups I am friendly with, and use as sources for many of my posts. CBU and SAC are currently suing the FS over travel, and I'm watching for ammo for when we find ourselves in the same spot. And it will happen. Okay, enough from me, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
well said Dave
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2015, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim putman View Post
So why was it OK for Grahms group to change the quack attack trail that was built by DCFW to fit their needs?
I never said Graeme was involved. I asked Mona to share some details, but then you jumped in with your stick.

Even though I don't agree with everything you say or your tactics...I still appreciate your willingness to engage & have a conversation. Now if you could just chill out for a minute and let some other members speak up? I'd sure like to hear what others have to say...even if it is to say they don't agree.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2015, 08:09 AM
GHaigwood GHaigwood is offline
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I personally have not had an opportunity to visit the Trails this thread has focused on, however I do have some input on trail building, and the Pnw's relationship with outside users. My club, Dirt Minions 4x4 has been working with the USFS in an area known as Ladee Flats OHV just outside of Estacada OR. Currently we are working to enhance the current trails, adding difficulty as well as attempting to make them more sustainable. We work alot with help from Piston's Wild, obviously a PNW Member club, but we also work with several non-member user groups. We do recieve more help, both in labor and financial support from non member groups, however we have not persued any trail funds as of yet.

Our builds are aimed at serving as many users as possible, if we built just what we liked we would have trails that were perfect for us but too difficult for alot of users and boring for alot as well. We have built and will continue to build sections of trail that my Jeep will not go through without alot of help. We also bulid sections that my Jeep would easily go through in 2wd. We rely alot on the Feedback the Forest Service gets from users, when users give positive feedback it helps open doors for us and builds trust for us with the officials who control the area. Negative feedback hurts us and works towards limiting what we are allowed to do. The worst thing in my opinion for us is if people think we only build for ourselves as if we think we own the forest. Sadly alot of outside users have that opinion of the Pnw4wda.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim putman View Post
Call bs all you want but pay better attention Yes I have always represented members first since their the ones that I hear from. in more recent years I have broadened my horizons as I have been more active on forums. Had you attended more of the PNW meetings and read BOD meeting minutes when I was on the BOD then you would know this.
I know you've opened up your thinking over the years, but as you've said your obligation is to represent your membership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim putman View Post
Yes WTF has taken a lead in recent years at Elbe and is doing great things for their kind uf use (did you get that) But you do a dis service to the outcast and countyline clubs as well as other PNW4WDA clubs that put in many hours of service at Elbe.
My apologies to the Outcast & Countyline folks...they've stuck it out and are involved too. My comments glossed over that fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim putman View Post
Elbe as with most trails wouldn't even exist without the PNWs efforts..........And for the final question do you honestly believe that ANY of these areas would exist if it wasn't for the PNW4WDAs efforts in the political ? funding arena ?(as well as on the ground) just how do you think these areas get funded ?
This is your "go to" come back. It makes me feel like I'm supposed to bow down and kiss your ring. Is there a way you could convey the historical significance of the PNW4WDA without sounding like such an arse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim putman View Post
So please don't pretend to know me or what I do or represent you obviously haven't got a clue,
Everyone's entitled to an opinion. I certainly am willing to share mine and you've been banging away on the keyboard for some time now too The conversations with you always end up here. I just wish you could slow down and stop getting so worked up and find a way to represent the PNW4WDA in a way that will make people want to get involved. I know you have good intentions, but I feel like your approach turns people off and makes them hesitant to participate. Totally my opinion.

It would be nice to hear what others think about all of this I'm not trying to bash the PNW4WDA or attack Jim. I want to see the PNW4WDA grow it's membership, but I don't think we are going to get there with vinegar.

We need more honey up in here

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