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  #11  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:55 PM
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Semi typical comment. More with us than not at this point, but they're coming. WildEarth Guardians and Center for Biological Diversity have already made note on their FB and websites regarding Colville, Gifford Pinchot, and Ok-Wen. Count on litigation.

Comment from FS site:

The forests belong to all of us not just the environmental groups that want to keep the forests untouched.
Millions of acres have been put into "wilderness areas" for this purpose but that is not enough for this group of
people, they want it ALL and will stop at nothing to get their way. They are paying to local district to
decommission roads and file law suits to stop logging and recreation. Now, with the proposed new travel plan
it appears that the region has bought into this way of thinking even more by the blatant discrimination toward
"certain" groups of motorized recreation, specifically the WATV group.
This group has complied with all your requests and were told that if they got there ATV's licensed via Wash
State ( which we have at great personal expense )we would be able to ride on all forest service roads. The
local district has repeatedly lied to us over and over, has gone so far as to physically alter the current printed
travel plan to exclude ATV's, harassed people using the forest and have done all they could to stop certain
groups from using the forest. This is just another attempt to limit not only WATV's but motorcycles and any
other vehicles the district and environmental groups doesn't approve of
This is really simple, Roads are meant to be traveled on. An ATV is not going to do any more damage to a
road than any other motorized vehicle that is currently licensed and allowed on the forest service roads.
This District is part of the United States Forest Service not the MVCC or Conservation NW and should be
treated the same just liked districts all over the United States which are "open to all user groups"
I have contacted the local district for more information and have been ignored which doesn't surprise me. It
appears they don't want me to be an informed citizen and will probably ignor my input as well, which is normal
for them
It is very obvious the problem is not with ATV's, motorcycles or with snowmobiles it's the local district is where
the problem is, they have been accepting money from environmental groups which in turn tell the district what
they will do or loose future donations
I'm am not anti environment just someone that has been in the Methow Valley over 50 years and don't
appreciate outside groups telling me how to live here
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:58 PM
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Phantom, your thoughts are in the hands of BRC and out esteemed Congressman, in an attempt to jump start that side of things. Thanks for doing such a good job with them!
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:11 PM
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And then there's this


https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...FSPLT3_3106222
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2016, 06:19 PM
Phantom 309 Phantom 309 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Phantom, your thoughts are in the hands of BRC and out esteemed Congressman, in an attempt to jump start that side of things. Thanks for doing such a good job with them!
Geez...that feels kinda strange. Normally I avoid things like coalitions and politicians. I'm not usually on their good side. I feel kinda like Billy The Kid finally getting his pardon (except that I'm just an Internet dork.)

Seriously though, I can't take any credit for any of this land use stuff. I may post my opinions, but without the collective effort of some very intelligent and dedicated people in my district, I wouldn't be even half as informed as I am now (which is still not very much.)

Last edited by Phantom 309; 06-22-2016 at 06:47 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2016, 07:36 PM
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It all helps. I think you sell yourself short...
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  #16  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:20 PM
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Form letter that's popped up, and keeps popping up. Says in the document that obvious form letters, no matter how many, will only be counted as one. I've seen this one now 8 or 10 times:

Thank you for the opportunity to comment on this important issue. The Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest
is deeply important to me, as well as to fish, wildlife, heathy ecosystems, outdoor recreationists and local
communities. It's important that the Forest adopt a sensible and sustainable Travel Management Plan that
moves the forest towards a balanced motorized road and trail system that provides access to the national
forest while protecting and restoring natural resources, including fish and wildlife.
The current Motorized Travel Management Plan proposals are a missed opportunity to holistically address the
issue of creating a sustainable road system on the OWNF that balances motorized access with natural
resource protection and quality non-motorized recreation. And adoption of a final plan is only a first step. Over
8,000 miles of roads currently traverse the OWNF, many of which are of low value to recreation and forest
management, while placing fish and wildlife habitat at high risk. While this plan closes cross country travel and
motorized use on all Level 1 (closed) roads, as highlighted by the travel analysis reports released last year,
much work remains to create a sustainable motorized travel system on the forest that balances access needs
with natural resource protection.
Of the alternatives presented, I believe that a modified Alternative C that protects important fish habitat by
restricting dispersed camping on roads within 300 feet of streams recognized as Critical Fish Habitat while also
opening WATV use on existing open roads on six routes collaboratively identified by forest stakeholders is the
best option as an initial step towards a sustainable motorized road and trail network on the forest. Investments
in implementation, enforcement, and education are vital to the success of a final Travel Management Plan.
Adoption of a final plan must be followed with a forest-wide approach to winter motorized use, as well as
landscape recreation planning efforts and project level decisions to address problem roads that pose a risk to
natural resources and areas on the forest where motorized use (trails and roads) is out of balance with
management goals for watershed protection and habitat such as the Yakima basin including the Snoqualmie
Pass Adaptive Management Area.
As you finalize the Travel Management Plan, please continue to consider how problem roads and motorized
recreation can negatively affect water quality, fish and wildlife habitat, and opportunities for quality nonmotorized
recreation including hiking, horseback riding, wildlife watching, and hunting. Please continue to take
steps to limit negative impacts while appropriately balancing the diverse interests and needs of forest
stakeholders, as well as the needs and health of the forest itself and the fish and wildlife that depend on it.
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Last edited by Grumpy; 06-23-2016 at 06:27 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:23 PM
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This is one I picked at random:


I do not believe any recreational travel in these areas should be permitted via motorized means.
The noise and disruption to wildlife and human tranquility should not be happening. Foot traffic,
mountain bikes, horseback, snowshoes, and cross country skis are all acceptable. Any means
are acceptable in order to allow physically challenged persons to have the access that the rest
of us are able to enjoy. Currently people facilitated by motorized access go where they please
while doing much damage and no awareness of the problems they are causing and what's more
they don't care. This should be stopped.
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Last edited by Grumpy; 06-23-2016 at 06:25 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2016, 07:57 AM
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The "sustainable" system (what they can maintain within the budget) will be coming in "Part A" of the TMP. On the forests that I have seen figures for, that budget will take care of ML 3,4,and 5 roads, and 15-20% of the ML 2 roads. You can look to 80-85% of the ML 2 (high clearance roads) going away in the next couple of years. Now you know the reasoning behind the "mark the maps with the routes you use" open houses and meetings.

We had one a year and a half ago on the local forest here. Nothing yet, but they are working on "Part A" in house and when it comes out they will say---"Well, this is in accordance with what you showed us you want and use. We just did what you said you wanted." And it will be far enough down the road that people will have forgotten the meetingsd, maps and what they marked, if they even went.

For those that think I'm talking through my hat, wait til the sky falls in big solid brown chunks and see if you can peddle the toys. Bet you won't get the price of a good pair of hiking boots out of the deal.

Thanks to the group up there for staying on top of it and getting info out to the rest of us.
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  #19  
Old 06-23-2016, 09:38 AM
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I'm trying to figure out where that form letter came from. It's on the comment page 8 or 10 times, and there are some excepts from it as well. I think the other one is random...
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Last edited by Grumpy; 06-23-2016 at 06:28 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-23-2016, 11:07 AM
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Dave...

It is difficult to determine what in your posts are your words vs someone elses. Any chance you can try using the quote feature? It is one of the buttons above the text box you type into....just left of the # sign.

Quote:
It puts words into a comment bubble like this.
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